PRB

See personal tributes and photos at the bottom of this page.

PRB and the demography community are mourning the loss of two greats in our field—and two great people—William P. “Bill” Butz and Carl Von Bader Haub.

Bill, 81, served as president of PRB from 2003 to 2011. Carl, 79, retired as PRB’s senior demographer in 2011 after three decades on our staff, and continued to consult for us for many years. Friends, colleagues, and veritable institutions in population science, Bill and Carl passed away within days of each other this January.

“PRB and the demographic sciences at large owe these two gentlemen a debt of gratitude for their services to our field,” said Jennifer D. Sciubba, PRB president and CEO. “It’s hard to imagine our work without them, and we are fortunate to stand on the shoulders of giants who helped make us what we are today. Thank you, Bill and Carl.”

Upon learning the news, we asked former colleagues to share their memories with us. The response was overwhelming; you can read them all—and explore photos people sent us—at the bottom of this page.

People who wrote to us described Bill as a strong and visionary leader who was equally kind and lighthearted, just as comfortable hosting board meetings, advising on technical reports, and mentoring junior workers as he was leading team bike rides, starting hallway bowling games, and hosting tomato sandwich-making workshops for his staff (with fresh tomatoes from his garden).

Organizations often call themselves families, but Bill made real efforts to bond with the people he worked with. PRB’s Toshiko Kaneda shared this photo of Bill visiting her in the hospital after the birth of her first son, Koji—later on, he would come to her boys’ choir concerts.

Bill Butz with Koji in 2007.

Before PRB, Bill was a senior economist at RAND Corporation and an associate director at the U.S. Census Bureau, where he helped develop the Survey of Income and Program Participation.Even prior to becoming president, Bill championed PRB in a lot of ways, including helping us to strengthen ties with the Office of the Chief Statistician of the United States and to recruit key staff for our domestic program, recalled Peter J. Donaldson, PRB’s president just before Bill. Bill’s endorsement reassured senior officials at the Census Bureau and National Institutes of Health that PRB was a reliable, unbiased partner, enhancing the credibility of our work, Donaldson said.

Bill was also known for his limericks, which he’d share with his coworkers whenever they experienced a milestone; one colleague sent us a document containing over 100 of Bill’s poems. For a baby shower for PRB’s Jean D’Amico, who was preparing to welcome her daughter, Mia, he wrote:

“Lift your glass full of wine or Sangria
To newest D’Amico, that’s Mia!
Although yet unborn,
We can sure see the form
Of what once was a preconceived idea!”

Carl Haub in 2013.

Carl was the sharp mind behind PRB’s signature World Population Data Sheet and the warm face of our classic Distilled Demographics videos. A fount of knowledge with a gift for making complex information understandable, he was a regularly sought-out source for journalists, students, policymakers, and other professionals. He was a “sage,” a “guru,” an “institution,” colleagues told us.

Carl began his career at PRB in 1979, where his work took him to countries such as Belarus, Germany, Honduras, India (a particular favorite), Jamaica, Seychelles, and Vietnam. Carl’s reputation for careful, thorough work earned him the trust of national statistical agencies around the world, who shared hard-to-find data with him, Donaldson said, and global practitioners found the World Population Data Sheet so useful they translated it for people in Germany, Japan, Thailand, and beyond. The article “How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?,” written by Carl in 1995 and updated periodically, is still one of PRB’s most visited webpages, 30 years later (in fact, the BBC did a podcast episode about it just last year).

When he wasn’t busy at PRB, Carl enjoyed sailing on the Chesapeake, taking pictures, playing with his adopted cats, and reading on the front porch, wrote his wife, Donna Clifton, who also worked for PRB. And he so cared for his work—and was so good at it—that he consulted for PRB long after his retirement.

“PRB was extremely fortunate to have had Carl and Bill on its staff,” Donaldson said. “They were professionals of the highest caliber, making invaluable contributions to the collection, analysis, and dissemination of reliable population data while advancing evidence-based policy development and program implementation. It was a privilege to work with them. May they rest in peace.”

Thank you, Bill and Carl, for sharing your brilliance with us. Thank you, too, for being our friends. You are sorely missed.

Tributes From PRB Colleagues

Lori Ashford
Former Program Director, Policy Communications, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“I was fortunate to work with both Bill and Carl for many years at PRB and find it hard to believe they are no longer with us. Carl was such an institution at PRB. I remember his incredible recall of demographic details from around the globe, his sense of humor, and many stories about traveling in India and working with OP Sharma in Delhi to improve the India data on the World Population Data Sheet.

Bill also brought good humor, along with a hearty laugh, to PRB. We learned fun facts about the U.S. from quizzes during all-staff meetings and encountered more homemade games when we gathered at his house for picnics. He was kind and welcoming to everyone. May we all be so diligent at work and lighthearted in spirit. RIP Carl and Bill.”

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Wendy Baldwin
Former President and CEO

On Bill and Carl:

“What a loss for the demography community!  We all were raised on the data sheet— at least I was—and deeply appreciate Carl and Bill’s contributions to PRB and to the field.”

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Jason Bremner
Former Associate Vice President, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Bill and Carl were great sages of our field and wonderful mentors. I enjoyed bike rides with Bill, tomatoes from his garden during the great tomato sandwich events, and I can honestly say that I probably wouldn’t have finished my PhD if it weren’t for Bill urging me to get it done—thank you Bill!

My career in demography started with a class where they passed out the PRB World Population Data Sheet. I had no idea then that I would have the privilege of working with him on the WPDS many years later—thank you Carl!”

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Ellen Carnevale
Former Vice President, Communications and Marketing

On Bill:

“I was so fortunate to have Bill as my boss and mentor. He was someone I never wanted to disappoint. He infused PRB with joy, high expectations, a sense of community and friendship; and always offered a compassionate ear when I needed help or guidance. I treasure the years we worked together. He is forever in my heart.”

On Carl:

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Dara Carr
Former Technical Director, Health Communication, International Programs

On Bill:

“Although a relatively small organization, PRB has been blessed with leaders and staff that have made outsized and enduring contributions. Bill was a PRB treasure, an amazing leader and human being, whether he was coaching staff, mixing margaritas, writing limericks, or reviewing technical reports. He set a high bar and an excellent example for how to navigate through the world with grace and generosity. He wanted to be remembered with a smile, and happily, with many fond memories of him, I’m able to do that. In his honor:

We once had a fine leader named Bill
His brilliance was always a thrill
And his great kindness so easy to recall
A warm and thoughtful regard for all
Such sad hearts since he’s cycled his last hill”

On Carl:

“Carl, PRB’s data sheet guru for many years, was a wonderful and unforgettable colleague. We had at least one trip to India together, journeys enlivened considerably by his deep expertise on Indian population data and dynamics, his fantastic sense of humor, and the strong friendships and collaborations he forged there. Carl took immense joy in his work. I’ll never forget his glee upon receiving a report from the National Statistics Office of Mongolia. He was especially delighted to find a section in it on ‘lessons learned.’ His office contained a large collection of such reports, and he was always happy to help or to amuse with a quip. He was one of a kind, and, like Bill Butz, a PRB treasure. The world is a less bright place without Carl and Bill in it.”

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Kim Crews
Former Director, Public Education Programs

On Carl:

“I worked at PRB, with Carl Haub, from 1985 to 1998, in the Population Education Program.  I have used and continue to use the World Population Data Sheet for 40 years. I speak about Carl fondly when I share the Data Sheet with my students. In the years before the internet, I remember traveling to the printer’s office to look at blue lines. Some of the older folks will appreciate this type of memory.”

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Jean D’Amico
Senior Research Associate, U.S. Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Carl and Bill were such wonderful colleagues and valued leaders in the field.

As a graduate student in demography, I was familiar with Carl’s name and felt humbled to meet him when I started working at PRB. He was so down to earth and had such a great sense of humor—not at all the imposing figure I had imagined.

I started working at PRB in the same year as Bill. He was warm and kind and I will always be grateful to him for his listening ear and advice. He was a great PRB president but, even more, a great person.”

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Roger-Mark De Souza
Former Technical Director, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“What sad news indeed. They were both wonderful leaders and people who contributed so very much to our field. May they both rest in peace.”

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Peter J. Donaldson
Former President (1994–2003)

On Bill and Carl:

“It is a sad day when one must mark the deaths of two remarkable colleagues who shaped the work of the Population Reference Bureau (PRB) and contributed much to its being the leader in providing accurate, timely, and relevant information on population, health, and development to the global community.

For almost 100 years, PRB’s publications, conferences, seminars, and training programs have informed national conversations about population related policies and programs. Over this long history, no staff member has better exemplified PRB’s mission than Carl Haub. During his lengthy tenure at PRB, Carl played many critical roles, from being the staff’s go-to programming expert in the early days of personal computers, email, and the internet to collaborating with the mass media as journalists tried to make sense of the latest census releases.

Carl’s most consequential contribution was leading the preparation of PRB’s annual World Population Data Sheet, its flagship publication. Working with a dedicated team, Carl conceptualized, collected, reviewed, and meticulously checked the demographic data used in the data sheet. The data sheet’s reputation for accuracy and reliability earned Carl the trust of staff members at national statistical agencies around the world, who shared hard-to-find data with him. The Data Sheet’s use and influence extended globally, inspiring replications in Japan, Germany, and Thailand, among other places. Now digitized and easily available online, the Data Sheet continues to be an influential source of information for professors, managers of social service programs and policy makers. As PRB president and later as an enthusiastic alumnus, nothing pleased me more than visiting a ministry of health and seeing the World Population Data Sheet pinned to the wall—a clear sign of PRB’s impact and global influence and Carl’s role in shaping it.

I left PRB before Bill Butz became president, but I knew him and admired his excellent reputation in the population community. Even before he assumed leadership of PRB, Bill supported its work, providing valuable guidance on domestic population issues and reviewing manuscripts for the Population Bulletin. His experience in senior analytical and managerial roles at the Census Bureau made him a valuable source of information and advice on the data and presentation formats that would be most useful to government officials.

Before he became president, Bill also helped PRB strengthen ties with the Office of the Chief Statistician of the United States and recruit key staff for PRB’s domestic program. His endorsement reassured senior officials at the Census Bureau and NIH that PRB was a reliable, unbiased partner, enhancing the credibility of its domestic research.

Beyond his technical expertise, Bill’s leadership style was a crucial asset. He was knowledgeable yet humble, affable, and deeply supportive of his colleagues. His knowledge and insights extended beyond domestic issues. His early career experience at RAND gave him an understanding of international population issues and how there were being addressed.

PRB was extremely fortunate to have had Carl and Bill on its staff. They were professionals of the highest caliber, making invaluable contributions to the collection, analysis, and dissemination of reliable population data while advancing evidence-based policy development and program implementation. It was a privilege to work with them. May they rest in peace.”

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Dottie Ferrell
Director, Finance & Administration

On Bill:

“Bill was amazing, smart, caring, and funny. He was a great leader at PRB! I admired him for so many things but most especially his genuine care and concern for others. When I look through pictures of events at PRB, there is always a smile on Bill’s face. His laughter had a way of brightening up the whole room. His limericks, and games at the all-staff meetings brought fun and laughter to the organization. I will never forget bowling with him in the PRB hallway.   Bill and I kept in touch via Holiday cards and letters after his retirement and it was a joy to read about his family and his adventures each year. I can honestly say he was one of the greatest people I have ever known, and I will miss him dearly!”

On Carl:

“Carl was such a joy to work with. When I started at PRB in 2001, Carl was one of the people who at first intimidated me because he was so tall and smart, and he played such an important role at PRB. But I soon found out that he was just an ordinary guy, smart as heck, but very down to earth, always funny but also brilliant! I always admired him for all the knowledge he had in his brain and the cool smile he always had on his face. He will be truly missed!”

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Jay Gribble
Former Vice President, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Bill and Carl were wonderful colleagues and I’m thankful to have worked with them both. I hope many will share lively episodes of their memories of these two PRB legacies.”

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Judi Jackson
Former Director, Human Resources

On Bill and Carl:

“Though it has been several years since I have been at PRB, I fondly remember working with both Bill Butz and Carl Haub. Bill was a wonderful leader of the organization and I thoroughly enjoyed working with him and his excellent staff.  Carl was a resounding voice of PRB through the development of his annual World Population Data Sheet.

I extend my condolences to everyone at PRB and the families and friends of both Bill and Carl….two people who will be missed.”

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Charlotte Jacobs
Former Associate Vice President, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“It always felt like these treasured PRB ‘coworkers’ were more like family. May Carl and Bill’s memories live on forever.”

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Linda Jacobsen
Former Vice President, U.S. Programs

On Bill:

“Bill was an inspirational leader with a sharp mind, quick wit, and great sense of humor. He took our work seriously, but he also made our senior management meetings and retreats fun. Bill was a superb writer and excellent public speaker. He was also extremely thoughtful. I will never forget returning from my first presentation at PRB’s annual World Population Data Sheet press briefing at the Press Club to find a yellow rose and thank you note from Bill on my desk. He was not only a great boss but also a genuine and humble man.”

On Carl:

“I had the privilege of participating in several World Population Data Sheet press briefings with Carl. I was always impressed with the breadth and depth of his demographic knowledge and his composure in dealing with the press—he made it look so easy. I also had the pleasure of collaborating with Carl on a project to prepare custom birth projections for a private sector client. His approach was insightful and his analytical work was meticulous. He was truly a demographic legend.”

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Alan G. Johnston
Former Senior Visiting Fellow

On Bill:

“During the period 2009 to 2011 I was a Senior Visiting Fellow at PRB while Bill was the President. Bill was always so supportive of my work, in addition to teaching us all how to make a proper tomato sandwich. I had just moved to Kensington, Maryland, to marry Annie Cross, who knew Bill through her work at the Demographic and Health Survey. It turned out that we were neighbors with Bill in Kensington, and during the past 15 years we became close friends. Bill always met his friend Charlie Teller, also a Visiting Fellow, for lunch once a week. After Charlie passed away I took over that role, and Bill and I could often be found at the Tea Room in Kensington discussing world affairs. Bill and Annie and I also shared many dinners together, and attended many concerts and plays. Bill grew up in Indiana attending county fairs, and one of our most recent outings was this past August to the Montgomery County Agricultural Fair. Bill was in his element. He lived life to the fullest.”

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Jeff Jordan
Former President and CEO (2014–2024)

On Bill and Carl:

“I met Bill the first time professionally when he was at IIASA.  He was always affable and very supportive during my time at PRB.  And I missed out on working with Carl at this peak.  He was on leave from his stroke when I joined though I certainly benefited from his work ever since graduate school!  We are all better off for their time on earth.”

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Toshiko Kaneda
Technical Director, Demographic Research, International Programs

On Bill:

“I vividly remember Bill’s warmth when I came in for my interview at PRB. At the end of my meetings with the team, he surprised me with an offer letter. I knew I shouldn’t accept on the spot, but I immediately wanted to work for him.

Bill had a rare gift for connecting with people. He took a deep interest in his staff, offering guidance on everything from career growth to travel, cooking, and caregiving. His generosity and wisdom shaped so many of us. Even in retirement, he remained dedicated to service, inviting my husband and me to join the board of Voices for Children Montgomery, where he served as chairman for many years and where his impact is still deeply felt. (My husband still serves today.)

Words cannot fully express how grateful I am to have known and learned from Bill.”

On Carl:

“Fifteen years ago, Bill Butz asked me to work on the World Population Data Sheet with Carl, with the plan for me to take over when he retired. Honored, I eagerly said yes. But after my first session—where Carl walked me through his meticulous process—I remember feeling completely overwhelmed. The responsibility was daunting, and I knew I had a lot to learn.

For two years, I worked under Carl’s patient guidance, absorbing as much as I could. He graciously answered my endless questions and impressed me with his openness to my suggestions, even after decades of refining his system. As deadlines loomed, we often worked through weekends—stressful but rewarding. Even after retiring, he continued to advise and contribute right up to the 2024 edition.

I’m deeply grateful for Carl’s mentorship and will miss working with him terribly.”

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Mary Kent
Former Editor, Population Bulletins

On Carl:

“I was saddened to learn that Carl Haub had passed. He was such an important part of my time at PRB. Our friendship began in graduate school at Georgetown, where we shared an office in an old building just next to the ‘exorcist’ stairs. Carl used to grade my demography problems in his role as a teaching assistant—and I appreciated his help. When we both found ourselves at PRB, we collaborated on many reports and projects over the next 30 years. Most notable was the Population Data Sheet, which we worked on together for at least 15 years.  I learned so much from him. He had a gift for explaining demographic trends and processes in a way that resonated with a broad audience (exactly PRB’s mission). He was often in demand to give talks or press interviews.

I enjoyed talking with him about a wide range of subjects, and he was always my first choice for discussing nerdy demographic issues. I appreciated his calm demeanor and sense of humor and enjoyed hearing his stories about his time in the military, his sailboats, learning to fly, his travels (especially to India) and his beloved children. I miss him.”

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Marlene Lee
Former Associate Vice President, International Programs

On Carl:

“I worked with Carl Haub on PRB’s World Population Data Sheet, Population Bulletin, and speaker series. I knew Carl as an expert sought out by journalists and a fountain of knowledge about India. Many years later, I experienced first-hand Carl’s passion for sharing skills and teaching one-on-one.

One day when there was a severe weather alert, I wondered out loud if I should leave the office and drive home early or let the storm pass through DC first. Hearing my musings, Carl pulled me into his office and showed me how to find NOAA’s weather maps and how to drill down and interpret the path of the storm. Tracking weather had been one of his jobs during his military service, and he kept his hand in, so he told me.

Carl’s passions encompassed much more than demography and touched many lives. I have been tangibly enriched by knowing him.”

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Jacki Majewski
Former Circulation Director

On Carl:

“Carl was not just my coworker, he was my friend and my family’s friend. I have fond memories of PAA meetings with Carl and other staff members … San Francisco, walking through Chinatown and Carl making sure I saw dressed out chickens, ducks, etc., hanging in the open meat markets… Denver, one of the restaurants had ‘mountain oysters’ on the menu, and of course all the guys just had to have them….If there was mischief to be had Carl was the first one to point it out to us…Godspeed, my friend. I miss you.”

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Mark Mather
Associate Vice President, U.S. Programs

On Bill:

“Bill Butz said he never had a bad day at PRB. An eternal optimist, Bill was always upbeat about PRB’s future, supportive of the staff, and eloquent and animated in describing our work to external audiences. He also enjoyed practical jokes—like the time he removed all the posters and artwork in PRB’s office and remounted them in random places (to the dismay of our Director of Communications). In 2005, after receiving a sizable grant from the Fred Bixby Foundation, he informed board members that PRB would be changing its name to ‘Population Reference Bixby.’ Although he referenced April 1 in his email, some people thought it was a serious proposal, and awkwardness ensued. He was a great president and friend to PRB and I’ll miss him.”

On Carl:

“I met Carl when I started working at PRB in 1998. I was fresh out of grad school and Carl was a great mentor and role model to me. One of my first encounters with journalists was in a meeting Carl arranged at NPR’s headquarters to pitch story ideas related to the 2000 Census. He combined an incredible knowledge of global and U.S. demographic trends with humor and storytelling. If you haven’t watched Carl’s Distilled Demographics videos, you should. They’re timeless.”

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John F. May
Former Visiting Scholar

On Bill and Carl:

“These are very sad news indeed. Carl and Bill were fabulous colleagues, and they contributed immensely to PRB’s mission and to population studies at large. Carl had an incredible ability to assess the quality of demographic data, visiting the webpages of statistical offices around the world. Bill had a deep knowledge of the international population scene, and spent several years at the IIASA in Vienna, Austria. Both Carl and Bill had a sound understanding of world demographic trends and programs.”

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Deborah Mesce
Former Program Director, Media Training, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Bill and Carl will both be missed. Bill was a steady leader during his time at PRB, and Carl was the data go-to for so many years. And both were great to work with. RIP.”

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Kelvin Pollard
Former Senior Demographer, U.S. Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Both Bill Butz and Carl Haub were very smart guys who were blessed with a ‘joie de vivre’ that was infectious for everyone who knew them. While they took their work and the mission of PRB very seriously, neither of them took themselves seriously. Examples include Bill’s ‘hallway bowling competitions’ (using a lawn bowling set he had) and fascinating stories and pieces of trivia that Carl would offer up.

And there were also Bill’s limericks. In that spirit, I came up with one to salute them both:

There were two men named Carl and Bill,
Neither of whom were run of the mill,
During their tenures at PRB,
Their ability and spirit suited us to a ‘T’,
Remember them always? Of course we will!”

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Jennifer D. Sciubba
President and CEO (2024–present)

On Bill and Carl:

“I was fortunate to have struck up a friendship with Bill after I became CEO through regular check-ins over Facetime. I take comfort from my last conversation with Bill in December, where he was cheering on PRB’s boost in communications and increased visibility. And if not for all of the materials Carl wrote for PRB over the decades, I would never have been able to self-teach in demography and develop my career the way I did. His work is why I became a PRB fan.”

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Jim Scott
Former Chief Financial and Operating Officer

“Lay down our dear brothers, lay down and take your rest
Oh, won’t you lay your head upon your savior’s chest
We love you, oh but Jesus loves you the best
And we bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight
And we bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight
And we bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight

(Adopted from a traditional folk song)”

On Bill:

“Bill, I will forever cherish the lunch meetings we had while at PRB, where we discussed PRB, sports, politics, and economics. I was so fortunate that we continued this tradition at our ‘DK breakfast meetings.’ The 2019 Nat WS victory and the Commanders’ renaissance were sports highlights.”

On Carl:

“Carl, you were the single most important staff member during your 30+ years of service to PRB.  You brought complete credibility to our demography program, and the World Population Data Sheet ensured continuous funding from USAID. And you had the best stash of snacks ever compiled in any office at 1875. RIP…”

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Barbara Seligman
Former Chief Strategy and Growth Officer and Senior Vice President, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“Although I didn’t work with either Bill or Carl during my time at PRB, I admired and benefitted from their many contributions, including Carl’s videos! My condolences to their families and loved ones.”

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Erin Sines
Former Policy Analyst, International Programs

On Bill:

“When I think of Bill, I remember his big smile, generous spirit, and an abiding love for tomato sandwiches that he passed on to me. His spirit and energy will be missed.”

On Carl:

“I had the privilege of taking some of my first-ever professional trips with Carl Haub. We completed a series of HIV/AIDS chartbooks for policymakers in India, which required visits to states across the country. Carl was a thoughtful and generous mentor, who took the time to share not only his demographic expertise but also his favorite spots in Delhi. He made clear that part of our job was to learn about and experience the culture, whether by taking an afternoon walk to get an ice cream cone or visiting a local sightseeing destination. My deepest condolences to Donna and the rest of Carl’s family.”

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Rhonda R. Smith
Former Associate Vice President, International Programs 

On Carl:

“Carl was a wonderful colleague, mentor, and friend during the 27 years I worked with him at PRB. He was always willing to stop what he was doing to help me figure out a problem, usually with a smile and a funny anecdote. Even when I was traveling in far flung places, I could count on Carl to respond to my emails and help make a thorny calculation late on a Sunday evening!  I also had the pleasure of working with Carl in India. He opened a whole new world for me when he insisted I leave the hotel, forget about work for a change, and learn something about the local people. It was a lesson that I took to heart in all my future travels.”

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Heidi Worley
Former Program Director, International Programs

On Bill and Carl:

“I, too, have fond memories of both Bill and Carl. Bill was PRB’s president when I first joined in 2005 and was a wonderful visionary, kind man, gifted limerick writer, and generous gardener. We had lots of fun during those backyard staff parties he hosted at his lovely home in Kensington!

Carl was the public face of PRB’s data sheet for so many years, with a global reputation far beyond what I could have ever imagined for a demographer. I was always amazed to watch him field questions from the press and in webinars. I was keenly familiar with the reach of his knowledge because his email forwarded to me after he retired, and I passed along numerous notes and questions to him for many many years.

It was certainly a privilege to work with these two influential men.”

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Nancy Yinger
Former Director, International Programs

On Carl:

“I am sorry to learn of Carl’s passing. I worked at PRB for 15 years. During all those years Carl was a colleague and typified what PRB was all about. He loved data and worked hard to make the data sheet accurate and internally consistent. He was well connected to other data geeks at the UN and Census Bureau. He also seemed to truly enjoy explaining data and trends to journalists, students, and other professionals. On a personal level, he was pleasant and funny. He loved a good joke, especially a string of puns. It was a privilege to have been his colleague for many years, and I send heartfelt condolences to his wife, Donna Clifton, who is also a valued colleague over the same time frame.”